Recently we had the chance to talk with Gates McFadden about her wonderful career, which includes the theater, dance choreography, Star Trek: The Next Generation, and now her new podcast Gates McFadden InvestiGates: Who Do You Think You Are?
Horror Geek Life: You started your career in the theater. When did you decide you wanted to move into choreography, or was that something you always wanted to do?
Gates McFadden: No, it was something that just happened. I had pretty much danced all my life, but I have a couple of twists in my back, so I was never going to be the ballerina or in the professional companies, but I really could dance and I loved to dance. Actually, I really wanted to do acting, but I knew so much about movement; everyone I ever studied with was always involved in movement. The man I studied with in Europe, Jacques Lecoq, was into all kinds of movement things, even though it was theater. I just sort of started into choreography.
A lot of people know how to do all of this, but in the ’60s, I really knew how to ride the unicycle, how to walk the giant wooden balls, how to do kicklines, I could just do these odd things. In college, someone came up with a rock musical and said, “Do we know anyone who can tap dance, do this, do that…” and I was like, oh, yeah, I can do that. I became the go-to person if anyone needed any dance stuff, and that’s how I got the Harbour Hastings Pudding Show while I was still in college, and that was a very nice paying job for me at that time, a lot better than being a waitress. The guys always had to do some kickline thing, and that was one of my specialties, so I would choreograph all the dancing and all the acting during the songs, things like that. It’s even very much a part of my acting, actually, and I was always the prop actor on Star Trek. I had more props, operations, whatever, and that’s really how it started.
I know Jim Henson was looking for someone who could do multiple things, because at the time I thought I was going to act in Labyrinth, I was going to be Jennifer Connelly’s mother, but the (British Equities) would not give me papers to do it, and that’s actually why I took the job. But by that time, I had also been teaching on a lot of theater facilities, graduate and undergraduate levels, and working with actors, specifically on improvisation, movement, comedy, and things. He (Henson) had known about that and had seen me perform on Cloud 9, a Tommy Tune production in New York City, so I think he had this plan that I knew nothing about. He wanted someone who could work with the puppeteers and work on their movement, and someone who could work with the Dwarves, someone who could direct things with all the animatronics and stuff. It was hard, really hard. Nine-to-ten months, and wow, one thing after the other but the most fun was doing the ballroom scene, partly because it just seemed so much simpler doing that. (Laughs)
HGL: So was moving into television and film a natural progression for you, or was that something you wanted to do anyway?
GM: Oh, I love that question. No, it wasn’t something I had been thinking about. The theater is just it for me, in so many ways. I adore film, I’m a cinephile, I love TV and film, I binge-watch as much as the next person, but I always thought there was something extraordinary and electrifying when it’s you and the spectator, and you feel something happen between you and the audience. It’s bigger than you, if you know what I mean. The energy, that’s why you go to a rock concert, anything can happen when it’s live. The audience bounds together and it’s fascinating. All of a sudden, you’re in this collective experience and I find that very powerful; you are connected, we are connected, and that’s something we should never forget, so I do love that. Of course, I was interested in doing film or television, and I was cast in things, I just always kept going back to the theater. I don’t know how many years it’s been now, but I started up a theater, built up a theater in L.A. because I wanted to do some new plays, some experimental things, Brent (Spiner) worked on one with me. I just really love working with actors, conceptualizing the space that you work in.
I had one thing where we just used the entire building once, and the audience had no idea there would be something right behind them. I would transform space almost magically, and I love that because it’s live. It’s not a special effect, it’s a real thing, and people are wondering how that could happen. Meanwhile, I’ve got five people pulling strings, making things appear, I really love that. It’s funny, Labyrinth, when it happened, I was actually cast in a Woody Allen movie. I was shooting something on television, I was already two days into it. I had a screen test with Robert De Niro for Big, Penny Marshall was going to use me in that, then he pulled out, but I also had a skiing accident. I had very serious surgery done, so I lost all three jobs at once. They disappeared. Jim (Henson) had already seen me, he had cast me in The Muppets Take Manhattan, so he asked me to do Labyrinth and I said no. But then this happened, and I needed a job, so he tested me on a movie called Dreamchild, which is a beautiful movie. One of those hidden gems. He just took me to London and left, so I think that was my trial by fire; do the movie, work with the voice actors, work with all the puppeteers, and it was hard! (Laughs) At that time, it was animatronics and there would be like seven people for one character’s face, and things would break constantly. You had all these live actors and creatures… there was a lot of pressure. It was pretty wild (laughs).
HGL: Do you think all actors should experience working live on stage, or is it just not for everyone?
GM: I think it’s just not for everyone. You have to have physical and vocal chops in a way on stage that I don’t think all TV and film actors have to have. On stage you train to be an old person or a young person or multiple characters, I love stuff like that when it’s well done. When I first saw Nicholas Nickleby there was an actor who was playing both the villain and this other jolly farmer, and no one knew until the end that it was the same actor. I got to do that on Cloud 9, I played the triple part, the handsome, sexual horsewoman, the dumb little nanny kind of maid, and an older woman. You had to do these transformations so quickly and people didn’t know until the end, the curtain call, that I was all three characters. That’s kind of magical to me, I love that kind of stuff, that’s why I love theater so much. I can wax poetic about some films that I’ve seen, I love cinema, I love all of the performing arts, and visual arts, I’m hooked!
Horror Geek Life: So how did the audition for Star Trek: The Next Generation come about, and what was that process like?
GM: You know, it’s so funny, it was a fluke. I had never watched Star Trek, and I was out for another movie audition, I had been flown out. I was on my way to the airport, checked in with my agent, and said I’m going to head to the airport and it’s like,”No, no, they just put out a casting call for a new Star Trek series!” My agent was a huge Star Trek fan, but I’m like, “No, I don’t think so,” to which I got, “No, no, please, for me, you’ve got to do this! There are three women characters, just go.” So, I go to Paramount and there’s nobody else. I think I was the first woman who auditioned, and the three parts on a desk, Tasha, Deanna, and Dr. Beverly Crusher. I read the three scenes, and I really didn’t want to miss my flight, I didn’t think “this could be a great job” like anyone sane would have thought since I hadn’t seen the show. The scene I read for Crusher was “The Naked Now” scene, coming onto the captain after getting this virus, making her drunk and I thought that’s the funny character, I’m going to do that scene. It turned out to be one of the only funny scenes the entire time I played Crusher, but that’s what grabbed me. I loved the scene, I love improvisation, and that was one you easily could have fun with. Movement-wise and everything, just slight things, and I loved it, I had fun.
They actually offered me the part and I turned it down because I wanted to do this play with Des McAnuff and Linda Hunt. They came back a second time, weeks later, and by then I knew I really did want to do this play and had been cast, so I was going to go to San Diego. They came back again and Gene (Roddenberry) called me and said, “You should really do this,” and they were willing to let me continue to do performances of the play. So, I wasn’t going to be on the bridge, which in the long run could have hurt my character. They picked me up in a limo and I would sleep while they drove me to my hotel in L.A. I’d sleep for a couple of hours, get up and do hair and makeup, shoot, and then they’d take me to the airport and I’d take a plane and just make it a half-hour before curtain. I just didn’t understand how unusual that was, what a privilege it was, I was pretty naive about all of that.
I’ve been totally humbled over the years about the power of Star Trek, the message of inclusiveness and positivity, which I think is beautiful, so I’m an actual fan now. Not just because I was in it, but because I’ve learned about it and it’s about the fans more than anything. It’s been many years now, of going to conventions and meeting fans, seeing and hearing about people becoming doctors, geologists, whatever, because we were role models. That is the kind of positive message that keeps the world moving forward, isn’t it? I am so honored that I was able to be a part of it, but it took me a long time to get it.
Also, I think it takes time for a show to find its voice, get its feet firmly planted on the ground. For example, I think Star Trek: Discovery’s third season was such a leap forward. In the beginning, on Next Generation, there were some things that were recycled, even “The Naked Now,” which had been so much fun to do, that had ties back to the original series. I think finally when you get to episodes like Michael Piller’s “First Contact,” the Borg and all that, the scripts became phenomenal. You would really talk about issues within an episode and the power of Star Trek is to get people to think, to hold ambivalence and to hold contradiction. To not have to say this one’s right, this one’s wrong, let’s look at all sides here, we can co-exist, it’s not perfect…that’s incredible. I’m very proud to be part of a group, and I mean all of the series, they are phenomenal people. They are smart, caring, talented, just great human beings, and I really think that’s great.
HGL: A perfect example of what you are describing, being part of a special group, are the actors in the Star Trek: The Next Generation series. They has formed this wonderful little family unit that still exists to this day, and I think that’s amazing.
GM: I do, too. We still group text, and we laugh and have so much fun. That is why the podcast was so thrilling, even though I didn’t have the idea to do the podcast, I was asked to do it. What’s really funny is I turned Nacelle (Company) down twice, and then they came back the third time and I thought, uh-oh, Star Trek came back the third time and it changed my life, so get off your high horse here. Even though you don’t know what it’s like, try it! (Laughs) It was a lot of fun. I learned how to sound edit, I love learning new skills, and I was nervous in the beginning, even though these people are my friends, it’s a different kind of role for me. I would find myself thinking, oh god Gates, shut up, let them talk. (Laughs)
Some of the things that came out in these episodes were quite extraordinary, actually. I’m not saying I’m taking credit, they are just extraordinary people. Hopefully, people will learn something about us that they didn’t know before, but I think you’ll really feel the friendship and love. So far, I’ve done 14 and now I’m just taking a short break before I start up again. But yeah, they’re all interesting people, which is what really makes it work, I think.
HGL: I listened to the brief clip of you talking to LeVar Burton about your perfume. For me, this is a wonderful example of the comfort level and familiarity that exists between the actors from Star Trek: The Next Generation.
GM: (Laughs) Oh, I love that you enjoyed it! Here’s the thing, at the last minute I thought, okay, I’m going to come up with this idea because I had seen him not too long ago and that’s what happened. I thought, he’s either going to jump on board or he’s not, and if it really sucks, I’ll just take it out, right? But that’s the thing, you’re right, he jumped on board right away, it was like improv on a Zoom screen, it was fantastic. You know, everyone is so classy on the show and LeVar is so classy, and I was so excited for him about Jeopardy. I wasn’t allowed to say anything, but I’d been talking to him all the time, telling him, “You’d be perfect,” I’m just so excited for him.
HGL: Did you have content ready ahead of time for the podcast, with your guests, or did you just kind of go with the flow, see where the conversations went?
GM: I would research. I researched my friends enormously, went back and watched stuff they did, etc. I knew I didn’t want it to be about Star Trek because none of them would want to just talk about Star Trek. If it came up, that’s fine, but that’s what we’re always interviewed about and I know how they feel about it. I knew with certain people it would go a certain way. Some people would control it a little bit more, some people wouldn’t, but I wanted to find out about them, ask questions. Some of the stuff I knew already, but I wanted to see if we would go in a different direction. Then there were some things that were just like…wow.
For example, I had so much fun with Wil Wheaton, and I really worked on getting him on the show. I thought, how am I going to make the conversation real so I’m not his space mom only? We’re really close, so I made up this game, you’ll see how it came out in the end, but it was fun and went on for a long time. I edited it down to two episodes, but I think it’s a powerful two episodes. We can go from laughing hysterically to something very serious. We talked about all kinds of things, Greek tragedies, heroes, when did you lose your virginity (laughs). I was very pleased with that one, and I think you learned a lot about us both. Maybe I was letting too much information out, who knows, but we’re going to find out! (Laughs) You know, you have to take risks in life, not everyone’s going to like it, and that’s okay.
HGL: Besides the podcast, what other projects do you have coming up?
GM: I have an executive producer credit on the History Channel series Center Seat. Nacelle is doing an eight-part documentary on fifty-five years of Star Trek. They are focusing on certain things, so I’ve been working on that, which has been keeping me pretty busy. I’m also remodeling my house, making fashion decisions every day (laughs). I’m really into architecture and design, I’m drawing plans, so I’m definitely busy.
I want to thank Gates for taking the time to talk with us. The podcast Gates McFadden InvestiGates: Who Do You Think You Are? will be available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Podbean, Amazon Music, and more starting May 12th.
